Yeah, everybody looked, you know, you heard the crack, you heard the 
initial and then it was like, everybody looked and the building just dropped 
in front of your eyes, BABOOM! Just...just dropped in front of your eyes. 
Everybody kind of looked at everybody and went right back to work. It was like 
it was nothing happened.

	Well, we were too far to run. I mean, it wouldn't have made a 
di...forty-seven stories were...wouldn't have made it to us, but you didn't 
have time to run. The building was down, it came down. When it decided to come 
down, it was down. It wasn't a hundred-and-some-odd stories, you know, when it 
decided...but I won't...it came down in a matter of couple of...couple of...I 
don't know what happened at the other end, closer to it did people run, uhhh, 
they could've. Yeah, I don't know.

	Any removal was done with the utmost of respect.  Early on, yeah, early 
on, everybody uh, you know, this is one of the things that you do in the fire 
service or in any of the emergency work services...ah, I like to say all of 
them, but I know in the fire service, definitely. You try and treat an 
individual, who is dead, as though they are alive. You give them the utmost 
respect when it's...when you're able to. The utmost...you treat them just the 
same, you know, you go to put them on...in a body bag, you don't drop them in 
the body bag. You pick them up, gingerly, you support their head, you support 
their arms, you support their legs, and you place them in there very gingerly, 
cross their arms if, ah...you know, and you close up the bag, because it's 
still a person. 

	Yeah, they, yeah, everybody was treated very, very, very...with the utmost 
of respect, um, you get them out...you may have to be a little rough depending 
on how they are situated to get them out of from what they're under maybe, or, 
but as soon as they're free and they're going to be placed in a, in a body bag 
or whatever was available, you treated that person with the utmost of respect. 
You didn't lollygag because there's a lot of work to be done, but you did not 
take and throw...that just doesn't work...I mean I didn't see it anyhow.

	Um, you know, the fire service...all the rigs have, uh, carry disposable, 
uh, body bags and, and I don't know where they came from, but they were there 
from...I guess, the firemen just being what they are, there were rigs all over 
the place, you know. Um, just grabbed whatever they could, and it wasn't 
always just a body bag, you know, I mean, you had um, you had a stokes basket, 
cause you had to find something, and a stokes basket is just what it sounds 
like. It's a long basket affair, um, and if you didn't have something to cover 
the person, you looked for a turnout coat, you'd look for clothing, uh, their 
own clothing, uh, something just to, you know, we're taught to cover them. 
Yeah, you try to, because you always want to do that. But that was the...the 
first day was...was difficult. Going home was difficult. I didn't want to go 
home at all, because I...I just didn't want to go home and face anybody. I 
knew I had to.

	No, I decided to go home. It was too much.  It was...It was late. It was 
dark, so it was late. It was still September so it was...daylight was 
still...um, I don't remember, you know, I...and I had called home once or 
twice before I went home, you know, through the rest of the day, waited for 
Dennis to get there, gave a couple of reports, just to get everybody ready, 
because, uh, you know, at this point, it doesn't sound too good. 

	Um, how did I get home? You're asking me the questions, you know. I got 
home by vehicle...fire department. I'll have to check with Brendan, how the 
hell did we...or did I go home with Brendan? Shit...I'm gonna have to find out 
how I got home. I...I'm pretty sure it was the fire...fire...pretty sure it 
was the fire...I'm positive it was a fire vehicle...how?

	Oh, yeah. His jeep was committed in Brooklyn, and I wasn't going back to 
Brooklyn to look for his jeep and not find him...I don't know if Brendan came 
home with me. I don't think he did. I'll have to investigate this now. You've 
got me, yeah, we haven't spoke about this, really to speak of, Brendan and I, 
you know, it's one of those, hmm...Anyhow, I got home...

	Yeah, it was late, it was late. Place was jammed with people...Oh God, 
they were all outside, it was a beautiful day. It was a beautiful day. It was 
still warm, everybody was sitting outside you know, either out in the back 
yard or in the house, cars were all over the place, it was like...and I didn't 
want to go there. 

	I don't know...probably not well...Yeah, probably not well, I mean, you 
know, I was...covered in crap I guess, yeah, but, I, you know I wasn't...I 
shouldn't...maybe concerned that, with the way they see me. I was more 
concerned with what they were going to ask...because I, I knew what the...they 
definitely had to ask me. And I definitely had to make a response to it, you 
know. Not good. Grandkids, well Andrew...the little guy was only three, Andrew 
was nine, uh ten, so, he knew, you know, what was happening. The little guy 
didn't know, to speak of. And um, uhh...

	No, you're wired. You're wired. Everybody stayed, of course, and they 
just...and they just stayed.  Uh, all family members, friends, from out of the 
woodwork, you know. Um, being in the fire department in Great Neck, you make a 
lot of friends. And just being in Great Neck all your life you make a lot of 
friends, and, people just showed up to...you know, they heard about 
it...hmm...Yeah...it was a tough day. Everyday was tough after 
that...everyday.  Yeah. Took a shower, after...when, you know, I was able to 
ge...take a shower...

	Yeah, I m...must have ate like a hog, I guess, because I didn't eat all 
day. I don't remember if I ate...I...I probably ate like a hog. I didn't eat 
all day. I made up my mind that, you know, the easiest thing to do is what a 
lot of guys did, which wasn't beneficial...is you work yourself ragged and 
then you get a couple of hours and you work yourself ragged then you get a 
couple of hours, ya...because then you're not, you're not functioning right. 
So I made a point to...to try to get at least, you know, five or six hours of 
sleep, and then go in and spend the day, and five or six hours, go in spend 
the day, five or six hours. This way, at least, you...you have some rest, you 
focus better, you think better. Um, you know, if you think about where you had 
to go, and the cautiousness that you needed to have, and...and...nnn...and 
there was still like, you know, you could unscrew your head everyday for the 
first bunch of weeks. There were...there were things happening every day. 
There were so many, ah, episodes that happened every single day and you have 
to remember what the site was like. For the first couple of months it was 
helter skelter type of, you know, holes and voids and shhhh...big openings and 
valleys. One valley between West Street and getting onto the North Tower was 
like, wow, what a valley. There's some classic pictures that show it...So...

	Yeah, it still is...today it's a dream. Yeah, sure it was a dream, 
absolutely. You know, you wake up, especially that first morning, you wake up, 
and you're kind of like, did this happen, what am I...what am I, and then it 
only takes a matter of a couple seconds and then you realize, yeah, yup, 
something's wrong. You get up, get dressed, took right off, went in...ÕYeah, 
the second day I went in a little more prepared. Yeah, I brought my gear in 
with me. I said, well, ok, gotta be prepared now.  You know, my turnout coat, 
boots, bunker gear, pants, you know, I had my...uh, I had all my...my gear, 
different type of boot, to...to go with the bunker pants. So I went in, just 
like I was going to work. You know, helmet...

	...Ahh...nothing other than what I carried in my pocket. Ah, I knew there 
was going to be a lot of tools at the site. Uh, and, and, the tools were there 
by the, by the gobs. By the next day, by the twelfth, there were...you had 
tools starting to show up. You know, the Home Depots were bringing stuff in, 
you know, and then it's just a matter of what do we need, because when I left 
the site it...it was obvious that the tools, moving the steel, was nothing 
that you're going to carry in your pocket, no, you needed the...the...the 
heavy equipment to move. So the big things were a couple of extra pairs of 
gloves, because you, you want to make sure your...your hands are gonna be 
protected. 

	Fire vehicle. I had the luxury of having...and it was a luxury...the...the 
volunteer fire department in Great Neck gave me a vehicle immediately. The 
city fire department said, uh, you know, I could have had a vehicle, you know, 
but I had a vehicle from Great Neck so I wasn't going to...so, I had a fire 
vehicle and, you know, when they talk about security and everything, and that 
was really unusual there too because I had a fire vehicle and I went right 
through, all the...all the lines. Coming over the bridge...

	Yeah, who came in with me? I gotta remember who came in, maybe Freddy 
Sager (?) came in with me...Uh, Marty McTygert (?), I think...excuse 
me...Marty McTygert was probably with me.

	I...I...you know something...I don't have the vaguest idea. I could...I 
couldn't even answer that. I don't...I don't remember the ride in. I would 
imagine if they were...ah, you know, I was trying to explain what the site 
looked like, what we had done. Bit of a blur.

	Yeah, oh, oh, we were stopped all along the way...you know, and you 
just...Fire Department...OK...Fire Department...OK. I still had my...my 
credentials as a fire department...but I mean...ah, the...the...anybody could 
get in with credentials. P.S. We weren't stopped, never. I mean stopped where 
they actually took us out of the car and searched...ah...um...someplace down 
the line, I forgot how long, how many months, maybe within a...the first month 
or so, depending where you were, who happened to be the guard; the, ah, the 
cops or military that day. They might say, 'Can you open up the back?' So 
you'd open up the back and there'd just be fire gear in the back and tools and 
what not. 'OK.' Yeah, so we were at the site everyday with the fire vehicle.

	Yeah, eh, I went in, the second day was still getting things organized. 
It's where I wanted to go. Where I wanted to go. I had, say a luxury. The guys 
who were retired kind of like had the luxury. We didn't have to report in, you 
know, they may not like to hear that, but I didn't have to report in, you 
know. So you...you did what you thought was best, you know, and, which was OK, 
because I want to go...you know, I want to go look into that hole over there. 
And you might find another dad, or another guy you know on the job and say, 
'What are you doing, Tom, you want to come with me?' 'Yeah, OK,' 'Hey Lee, 
let's check...let's check that out over there.' 'OK, let's go.'
	
	Um, we went up, ah, I think it was the first morning. We went up; down 
this...I'm trying...I'm gonna try to express it to you. When the North Tower 
came down, it took down...the North Tower was off of West Street by probably 
sixty, seventy feet...eighty feet off West Street. If you were...before the 
Towers came down...cars used to drive off West Street to the front of the 
ho...the...of the Trade Center and let people off, and...If you were to dig a 
hole straight down at that point, you'd drop into the, ah, parking sections, 
which would go all the way down bump, bump, bump, bump, bump. When the North 
Tower came down, it eliminated that section, so that all collapsed right down 
to, to six, seven, eight feet above bedrock; fifty, sixty feet down. So you 
had West Street, a valley that went down, then a valley that came up. Now you 
could go down to the far end and climb over all the debris at the far end and 
come up the North Tower, which would be a, task, because it's up and down in 
these...or you could climb down, and then climb up to get to where the North 
Tower pile was. You...trying to come in the other way was a bit dangerous, 
from up by Veezy [Vessey]. So you just basically said, well, we're gonna go 
down. They had ropes, and, and we went up. And I don't remember who it was, 
now. Uh, God, you know, everyday, I was there everyday and trying to think of 
every day, just impossible. But we went up to the North Tower, the pile, 
the...whi...which was about six stories high. People say eight, nine 
stories...it wasn't that high, it's maybe six stories high. This was a hundred 
and eleven plus story building that wound up being maybe six stories high in a 
pile...like a sand pile. Just picture a truck dumping the sand out. So we got 
up to the top, the six firemen that were in the stairwell...six or so firemen 
that were in the stairwell with the...with the...the black woman that was 
coming down the stairs, uh, they had already been taken out. I was there when 
they took'em out, the first day. But, I said, 'Let's go up to the stairwell, 
let's go...' yea...um, well, ah...'OK.' So we went up to the stairwell, went 
into the stairwell, where they were, and it...it's amazing that that 
stairwell...that is a, ah, mystery that, I don't know who can answer it. How 
they did that, sat there. A hundred and eleven stories of building collapsed 
and they were sitting inside the building, and they lived. I...It's...you 
think about it now, your hair's gotta stand up, cause you had to see it to 
appreciate it.